User talk:Sannse
Excuse me, but this is a fan-maintained reference database for Bernard Doove's Chakat Universe and associated materials. Unless you have received specific complaints regarding the limited use of official portraits for characters, they are protected under Fair Use, AND are authorized for use on this site. These do NOT appear to be violations of Wikia's Terms of Use. Please restore them, or someone will undoubtedly just re-upload them. You are welcome to discuss your concerns on any image in question, but it is the decision of the artist and owner of the image to allow their display here... and Wikia's rules do not override legitimate permission. Thank you for considering the intent of this site in the future. You may contact me if you have anything to add, or if there are additional images of concern. --Tigerstripe (talk) 01:53, January 12, 2013 (UTC) :I have restored the images you have deleted, and clarified their licensing. If Wikia has indeed received any valid copyright notice, bring it to my attention, and I'll be happy to work with Wikia for an amicable solution to the dispute. As the creator of this wiki, that's my responsibility. :Forced intervention is unnecessary and unwelcome, especially when it comes without warning. There's no need to be impolite. --Tigerstripe (talk) 02:09, January 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Please see the local page on copyrights for additional relevant information, policies, and procedures. --Tigerstripe (talk) 02:39, January 12, 2013 (UTC) :::Hi Tigerstripe, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. :::I'm part of Wikia's staff team. We’ve recently been reviewing images that have been uploaded to Wikia. Instead of deleting problem images when we get complaints about them, we have started to actively look for and remove them across Wikia. :::To be more specific, the Terms of Use state that content must not be "obscene, pornographic, abusive, offensive or profane". Obviously, that is open to a lot of interpretation. But the line we have drawn is that we don't allow shock images, images of sexual acts, or nudity – including bare breasts or butts. Anthropomorphic characters can be difficult to assess, but if they are "clothed" in fur, we accept them. However, if the images show nipples (or naked butts or genitals) then we consider them to be nude. :::Because this is the only issue with your images, I'm going to get a second opinion on the removals. This may not make any difference, because they are definitely outside the guidelines I work from, but I will see what happens. I would usually do this before replying to you, but with the weekend in the way, you've been waiting for a reply for too long! :::And I'm sorry the deletions seemed impolite. We are not visiting the wiki to do these deletions, we are automatically given images to check from several wikis. We aren't able to check each wiki and talk to the communities before marking the images for deletion, but do make ourselves available when someone is unhappy with the deletions. :::I'll get back to you as soon as I hear more on the second opinion. -- sannse (help forum | blog) 01:25, January 15, 2013 (UTC) ::::I see... excessive prudishness, and differing cultural values. I don't suppose the disclaimer in our local copyrights policy page will be of any help? It says: ::::"Please be aware that some of this artwork may have mildly mature themes or content. We'll try to keep the raunchy stuff under control, but the Chakat Universe is for mature audiences. Nude furry pictures are within this site. No, the community will not remove them to satisfy complaints borne from excessive prudishness or concerns for children. The fans of this stuff have no such problems with it, and this wiki is for the fans." ::::I can probably safely speak for virtually the entire fanbase of this setting when I say none find the images meant for the stories to be offensive. And in many cases, there are no alternative images. Perhaps a cropped headshot of the images in question would be a way around this Wikia issue... though I'd rather see Wikia relax and reconsider how it treats artwork of this sort. It's also oddly selective that these images are being targeted, as there are plenty of others of a similar nature on this wiki. ::::Thank you for speaking with me about the matter. I was a bit concerned my actions and protests would have resulted in a ban or something. --Tigerstripe (talk) 00:13, January 16, 2013 (UTC) :::::Hi Tigerstripe. No, I'm afraid the warning doesn't change the need to comply with Wikia's Terms of Use. We sometimes put up a wiki-wide warning notice on wikis with more mature themes, but even that doesn't mean that we allow nudity on those wikis. :::::You are right that differing cultural values are a factor here... Wikia is a US company, and so the line chosen is the one that's acceptable in mainstream US culture. I don't find the images offensive either, but I do find them to be outside the current acceptable level of nudity for Wikia. :::::That said, these are only just beyond that line, so I did get a second opinion. We agreed these were outside the current guidelines, but that it's close. So we agreed to put a hold on deletions here, until we can clarify the guidelines further. I'll specifically be using these images as examples of where I feel we can be more flexible. It may be quite some time before we hear more on this, but in the mean time I'll allow the deleted images and other similar ones on this wiki. :::::And as for blocking, that was never going to happen :) talking things over has to be first! -- sannse (help forum | blog) 00:16, January 17, 2013 (UTC) So... has this policy been abandoned, or is the wikia staff now allowed to delete whatever they feel tickles their personal boundaries without any explanation, using "Terms of Use" as an all-encompassing license to strike with no further reason? I must insist that further deletions have a clear justification, beyond the canned nondescript "violation of Terms of use" that is so easily abused for censorship. I see nothing here that violates any terms of use, nor any reason to delete a file uploaded by it's own creator. -- Tigerstripe (talk) 03:52, May 20, 2014 (UTC) :Hi. when we reviewed the guidelines, we continued to count anthropomorphic characters as "naked" if nipples showed. But we grandfathered in your images and did not return to delete them. However, it seems that some of the images were still in the review system (oddly) and so were reviewed as new images. As it had been so long since I saw your images last, I didn't recognize them. Although one, "Birth of Frosteyes", appears to show genitalia would have been deleted anyway. That one is definitely outside the limits set by the ToU and cannot stay on Wikia :For others, I'll continue to regard them as grandfathered in, but please be aware that it is easy to miss them in the large number of images we review. Re-uploading puts them back in the review queue, so may just mean they are deleted next time they come to the top of the pile. :The review system does not delete images in the usual way, and we do not visit a wikia to remove images when using the review tool. They are checked and deleted centrally, and so it's not possible to give a custom reason for the deletion. -- sannse (help forum | blog) 22:59, May 22, 2014 (UTC) ::Hmm... I suppose, but I don't think anyone in this fandom considers there to be anything wrong, or even "naked", about a nipple. Does this include male characters too? I don't think so, which makes it a double-standard, and inherently unfair. ::Regarding the deletions... it would be certainly be more fair if the staff could find the time to put some kind of notice on a file's talk page, so they could at least point out what part of the ToS it's considered a violation of. Then maybe we could better judge new uploads here. If it sounds reasonable enough, I'd be happy to delete the file myself. -- Tigerstripe (talk) 00:10, May 23, 2014 (UTC) :::Yes, a male nipple is considered differently to a female. I agree it's odd and a double standard, but you will have to discuss that with the American culture and it's inconsistent view of acceptability (and that of many other cultures, for that matter). :::On adding to the file page: as I said, these reviews and deletions are done with a tool that is not on this wikia. Images from all wikias (remember there are many thousands of them) are sent to the tool and viewed there. Those flagged in the tool as a problem, are re-checked and then deleted automatically without any visit to the wikia hosting the image. Having to visit the wikia to add a notice would be adding a whole new process on top of our standard workflow. I've already complicated things by agreeing to give more leeway for images here, I'm afraid more wiki-specific processes aren't practical. I'm willing to discuss any specific deletions you disagree with, but I also have to allow enough time to look after other wikias and their needs. -- sannse (help forum | blog) 21:43, May 23, 2014 (UTC)